Episode 158 - Live Free or Die
Max brings Aaron on the show to make an announcement on moving to the state of New Hampshire. The Local Maximum gets a new home base, and reflections on nearly 15 years in New York City - both from working in software/tech to the city lifestyle.
Links
The Onion: Cute Watching Bostonians Play Pretend Game of “Big City”
Run Your Mouth: Rob Bernstein Plugs Marsbot for Airpods
Related Episodes
Episode 150 on New York Politicians using the Afflict the Comfortable Motto
Episode 142 on the Launch of Marsbot for Airpods
Episode 109 with Adam Kapelner on Experimental Design which was the last in-person Interview
Transcripts
Max Sklar: You're listening to The Local Maximum Episode 158.
Time to expand your perspective. Welcome to The Local Maximum. Now here's your host, Max Sklar.
Max Sklar: Welcome, everybody. Welcome back. You have reached another Local Maximum. Aaron, this is an exciting day because one of those days where I'm making an announcement. Right? Yeah. So, by the time this episode goes out, I will have moved. Well, I think I said before I kind of temporarily moved out of New York City already. But now I am settling down in the state of New Hampshire. You gotta keep…
Aaron: This is official.
Max: Yes, got to keep the—gotta keep the new theme going. Got to move from one new state to another. The motto of New Hampshire is “Live Free or Die,” which I think is an improvement over the unofficial New York City motto, which is “Comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable.” But one thing I noticed about visiting New Hampshire is people actually say live free or die. You know, in normal conversation, they sign a license plate. And like you ask people about New Hampshire and they're like, “Well, it's you know, live free or die.” And I'm thinking, I don't know, the model of New York. I had to look it up.
Aaron: Yeah. I think I saw New Hampshire has the most recognized of all the state mottos.
Max: Yeah, the motto is “Excelsior” in New York State it's ever upward, which I guess makes sense with the high rise buildings but I don't think that's what it referred to. But yeah, it's very...
Aaron: It helps that it's in simple english unlike Massachusetts, another Latin one which I'm gonna butcher the Latin pronunciation.
Max: Oh, go for it.
Aaron: “Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem”, which apparently translates to “By the sword we seek peace, but peace only under liberty,” which sounds kind of badass. But I feel like the state is not living up to that model.
Max: By the sword we seek… So in other words, we fight to have peace but we'll only have peace if we're free. It's kind of along the same lines. But it's like we're going to jumble the word so much that we could get—we could get away with… We're basically—we're more sophisticated. We went to Harvard. So we have the…
Aaron: New Hampshire is a state of plainspoken people who will tell it like it is. Live free or die.
Max: Okay, okay.
Aaron: No point beating around the bush.
Max: Does that come from Patrick Henry, “Give me liberty or give me death?”
Aaron: Apparently, it’s not. I think it was General John Stark sent this as a toast to—I was just looking at it earlier. I think it was a veterans banquet, for veterans of the Battle of...oh, now I'm blanking on….
Max: Which war?
Aaron: …which battle it was? But it was a revolutionary war. And he sent a toast to them in his absence, which was essentially that with the follow on statement that there are fates worse than death.
Max: That was way more than I expected you to know about that topic.
Aaron: Well, I do my homework. I saw this in the notes for this episode, and I Wikipedia-d it real fast.
Max: Yeah. So I'm gonna be a lot closer to you. The town that I'm moving into is Salem, New Hampshire. It is not really that far into New Hampshire. It's not like up in the mountains or anything. But I looked around there, I'm kind of less certain about the attributes of the town. I could like—with towns in Connecticut, for example—I could be like, “This town is like this. And that town is like that.” But it was hard for me to kind of figure out. But it seems like it is a very centrally located place. I'll be 35 minutes from Boston, I think. And very easy—as easy as it gets in terms of access back down to New York.
Aaron: And yeah, that's certainly not anywhere near as urban as New York City, but less rural than the town that we went to high school.
Max: Right, right, right. I saw Manchester, New Hampshire. And I didn't know that up there they call it something like Manch Vegas? Yeah, look, I've been to Las Vegas. Looks nothing like Las Vegas. But I looked into living there too, but I didn't want something too urban. If I'm going to go up there and—but I didn't also want to live up in the mountains that would just be way too isolating. Like some people like “Why don't you go to Keene and stuff?” Maybe I could go to Siberia. But I think and/or up North Dixwell, not Keene is down south, but it's on the other side. But there's just nothing there so...
Aaron: The time to move to Dixwell notch is not right after a presidential election.
Max: Yeah, they have the election. They're like, “Who are you?” I'm registered.
Aaron: So just to clarify...Salem, New Hampshire is not the Salem Witch burning fame. That’s...
Max: You know that several people have told—have responded, like very sarcastically to me, “Are you going up there to burn some witches?” So that was—yeah, that was kind of uncalled for.
Aaron: Like many New England towns, it took its name from a town in England. And there are more than one of them spread across the region.
Max: Yeah. I think most states have a Salem. There's a Salem, Oregon, which is a big one. And I actually think, I mean, I think it's a biblical name too. So I think it goes back—I could be wrong about that. But I think Jerusalem, the root is Salem.
Aaron: Ah, well, that would not surprise me seeing as the people who settled in this region, were somewhat religious in nature.
Max: It means peace.
Aaron: There we go.
Max: Right? Shalom. I hope I'm right about that. So… No, I'm pretty sure. I'm pretty sure it does. So that's pretty cool. Okay, so...
Aaron: What does this mean for you? What does this mean for the podcast? What does this mean for America? The Nation wants to know.
Max: Right. Well, this is gonna be great for America. America’s saved. So first of all, one thing I found out about New Hampshire is that I can get a lot more space in New Hampshire. Not that I—I knew that. But it's pretty cool. So I'm thinking maybe I could build a little podcast studio in my apartment. It's gonna be apartment, not a house, just because I'm—I just want to be closer to people. I know, even with a pandemic right now. But it's like if you're moving to a new place, you don't know too many people, it's good to have a lot more people nearby.
But I still got a lot more space. Maybe we could build a little podcast studio in there. So maybe we—that means we could do more video, and I'm going to be closer to you. Maybe one day, we could do some live—I don't know if we could get guests up there. In the same way back in the heyday of New York, when I had the podcast in New York, I used to go to people's offices, and we do a lot of live podcasting with guests. I don't know how often that could happen in Salem, but at least you and I can do a few live ones.
Aaron: Yeah. Well, and for the time being, at least until the COVID situation levels out. You weren't getting live guests in New York as it was.
Max: No. Yeah. Yeah. No, my last live guest was—oh, shoot, let me—it was Episode 109. I remember that. Oh, Adam Kapelner. Adam Kapelner on the experimental design. Yeah, that was the last time I was allowed to have a guest in the office. And then we had no idea when we recorded that, which is kind of crazy. So yeah, I'm going to kind of—I'll be getting a car for the first time probably leasing a car. So that's new for me.
Aaron: Big change coming from city living.
Max: Yeah. Yeah. I don't really know—so you live closer to this area, we're still not allowed to say where you live. You're kind of in a nondescript area. It's not in Salem. But what's COVID like up there? I hope it's not as soul crushing as just New York. Because when there was a snowstorm in New York the other day. And there was a lot of feet of snow, so you don't want to go out anyway. You can't go out anyway. And they banned transportation. They banned vehicles, and you're not allowed to have. Nobody—you're not really allowed to have anyone over and you're not allowed to let—you have to kind of bundle up. Like even if you talk to, like, the doorman or whatever, you're not really allowed to show your face. And my glasses fogged up anyway. So it's like, yeah, for three days straight. I was—I did not interact with a single soul. So I hope it's not as depressing up there.
Aaron: I think it's gonna be better. I'm probably not the best example for the most outgoing and interactive of people because I saw a co-worker the other day. But it was because I was in the glassing case lab, and they were walking by in the office, and they waved to me when they went in. And two hours later, when they left, they waved to me again. And that was the most I've seen of the people I've worked with him in meatspace in months.
Max: I mean, I did notice in the few places up here where I was looking around, where there were some like restaurants and stuff where people don't give a crap about what's going on. And I kind of—I don't know, I guess I'm oriented towards that. I'm oriented towards, “Hey, let's see if I could… I want to see people trying to live better versus people who are less.” And I know people have opposite view on this but...
Aaron: I think it was a sign that things are moving towards that direction. So we got a big snowstorm up here not too long ago. And there's a pond out behind my house here. And the day after the snowstorm, I guess it was a snow day. Kids weren't—kids weren’t going into school and they weren't Zooming. So there were at least a dozen, maybe as many as two dozen kids, skating on the pond out back. And I don't think they were wearing masks when they were doing that. So granted, they were outside and it was big open space.
Max: Oh, yeah.
Aaron: But it was good to see people doing something as a group...
Max: And enjoying stuff
Aaron: ...in a safe way.
Max: Yeah. Yeah. It's really hard for me outside, if I wear a mask outside, which I essentially do with just—with my neck warmer, because when it gets cold, and my glasses just fog up, I'm basically blind. I don't know what to do.
Aaron: Well, I leveled up on that front. Maybe, was it not quite a decade ago, maybe six or seven years ago, when I got the laser eye surgery. So I've freed myself of the shackles of glasses.
Max: I didn't know that you had laser eye surgery. How was that?
Aaron: Easier than I thought it would be.
Max: I'm a candidate for that. But I'm not—I've never pulled the trigger.
Aaron: Yeah. Well, long story short. But I kept putting it off until it was absolutely certain that I wasn't going to be able to go to military flight school. Because if you do that surgery, then that rules you out. They don't want you accidentally reversing on them. And when that didn't come through, then I said, “Okay, I'm gonna treat myself.”
Max: Okay.
Aaron: I'm not going to be flying jets for the Air Force, I'm going to fix my eyesight instead.
Max: This is amazing. I learned two things about you. One, that you had laser eye surgery, which somehow I didn't know. And secondly, that you wanted to fly jets for the Air Force. I had no idea. Oh, you surprise me. I guess it's not that surprising but it's a pretty cool story.
So yeah, I think also in terms of the podcast, I mean, this is not really related to the move. This is not related to New Hampshire. But I know I said at the beginning of the year, I'm going to try to get more guests in. I did send out a bunch of emails, but I reached pretty high. And I know I need to—sometimes need to really follow up with people to get them to agree to be guests. And I haven't had the time to focus on that as much as I would like. So I'm hoping that once I'm moved in, I'll have that stability to be able to really send out more emails and follow up a lot more. So, I promise I'll try to get some big wins. I think I have some good ideas, but…
Aaron: And if not, you're stuck with me.
Max: Yeah. Yeah, that's not—I mean, I hopefully, I'm stuck with you anyway.
Aaron: It'll be interesting to record an episode live and in-person. I think the—we did at least once for the tech retreat.
Max: Yeah.
Aaron: Was that the only time we've done an in-person recording?
Max: That's the only time. And the funny thing is, we've seen each other in person many times, like, I think after doing the first couple episodes, we went skiing together. But then we did it and then we got back. And we're like, “We're so exhausted. Do you really want to do an episode right now?” It's like, no, it's kind of easier just to do it—just do it remote sometimes. But no, I think it will be fun to do some in-person ones occasionally. Maybe even will have a video setup in there.
Aaron: Yeah, so that'll be cool to see what—how end up building out the space there.
Max: Yeah, yeah. Another question might be, what am I doing for work? Right. That I'm moving. I really like my job at Foursquare. So I'm not sure that I like working remotely versus working in-person, in an office. But right now we have no choice. And the office is closed down until at least the end of the year. So I was like, “Let me just move where I want and see what happens.” But I'll continue to work at Foursquare labs. We actually have some interesting things coming out. We still have Marsbot for AirPods. But we also were trying our hand at a little game, like a little fun game that we can make from Foursquare technology, which is new for all of us. So it's like we're not gamers. So that's sort of an interesting one.
Aaron: Speaking of Marsbot for AirPods. I was listening to another podcast with an individual who we've heard on your show before, and he dropped the name of The Local Maximum because he's produced some content for Marsbot, for...
Max: Are you talking about Rob Bernstein?
Aaron: I am. So you were mentioned on Run Your Mouth recently.
Max: Oh, wow. Okay, I have yet to—well, I'm sure by the time this goes out, I'll have listened to that. So yeah, that'd be great. His stuff is really great in New York. I might produce some content for Marsbot for airpods. But I'll produce it for Salem, New Hampshire, once I get to know the lay of the land that might be fun.
Aaron: It's a good excuse to get some exploring in.
Max: Yeah. It's good excuse to get some exploring and to learn the town. So I think that will be a lot of fun. Oh, that's great. I'll put that in the show notes page. I can't wait to listen to Rob's episode.
Yeah, so basically, it was the choice of, “Do I want to be remote in New York City or do I want to be remote somewhere else?” And if I want to be remote somewhere else, I mean, I could have moved somewhere more exotic. But I didn't want to be more than a car right away to friends and family, which is, the planes now don't sound very pleasant. So yeah, I didn't want to move to Miami as all the cool tech kids are doing now. But hey, you never know.
Aaron: Cool. So I mean, this is a big transition.
Max: Right.
Aaron: Not just from going from urban to rural. But yeah, how long were you in New York City?
Max: I moved to New York City in 2006. Right after I graduated from Yale.
Aaron: Yeah. So that's like a full generation ago, practically.
Max: Yeah. And I spent the first three months living with my grandparents in Gramercy. And that's where, basically, I've been living for the last six months when I wasn't in Connecticut. So I kind of came full circle, I kind of ended in the same place that I began.
And when I first started there, the New York City tech industry was actually very small, especially compared to Silicon Valley. I mean, it’s still small compared to Silicon Valley. But it was kind of considered in its infancy in 2006. The Dumbo neighborhood in Brooklyn was just being developed. Wireless Generation, the education tech company that I was working for was, it was started in 2000. It had just moved into Dumbo from the, again, Flat Iron, which is where a lot of—where Foursquare is now—which is where a lot of tech tech companies are. But it was companies like that, it was more like mid sized startups, smaller startups, and that are lesser well known. And so I worked in there in Dumbo, which is now has Etsy, which is probably a more well known company.
Aaron: I don't think of them as a tech company. But I guess in a lot of ways, they are.
Max: Oh, they're a big tech company. I met the founders of Etsy. They came in to talk to my classes, NYU. They're just two younger guys who started the company. And then they passed it off, eventually, to bigger—to like a more professional CEO type deal.
Aaron: It's easy to fall into the trap of thinking of them more focused on the quirky products that are sold on their platform, rather than the platform itself. But that's the trap of thinking that Amazon is just about books.
Max: Yeah, no. It's basically the Amazon of quirky products. And they created that in Brooklyn. And tech in New York City—software in New York City just kept growing and growing. You had Google—and Google came in and they bought Double Click. When did that happen? I want to say—well, I want to look this up, because that was a big thing. Right? So Google acquired Double Click. Double Click was kind of an ad words type company.
Aaron: Right.
Max: So Google acquired them to make Google profitable. That was for 3.1 billion, and that was 2008. So that's a pretty watershed year, and then they combined, and that's now Google New York, where a lot of people work. Right. So that's one of Google's biggest offices. So that was kind of a watershed moment in New York tech. And I think investment in technology, in tech companies, in startups in New York was very highly-encouraged. You kind of had a Mayor at the time, Bloomberg, who was very supportive of…
Aaron: Very pro-business.
Max: Very pro business. Very, I mean, he came to the Foursquare office, did you know that? Like to support the company.
Aaron: I don't think I remember that.
Max: Yeah, that was a few months before I started. And then it seems like tech in New York kind of hit a plateau in the last few years. Now we might really be in trouble with this pandemic because...
Aaron: Do you think, without the pandemic, they would have been on a downslope regardless, and this just accelerated it? Or do you think this created the inflection point?
Max: Well, I've talked about this before. And remember, so there's two things. I mean, first of all, remember at our tech retreat in 2018, we already predicted a move to the outer suburbs. And I guess a lot of people in Salem, New Hampshire would consider themselves regular suburbs. But I kind of consider them the outer suburbs. But it's like, just because there's less and less reason to be in the city where you could go remote.
But now, at least during the pandemic, a lot of people want to go remote. And so, yes, that accelerated it. But I also think like lack of leadership, there's no appetite for encouraging tech companies to come to New York City at this point. Remember, Amazon wanted to have their headquarters here? That was a...
Aaron: Right? That was a fiasco.
Max: Yeah, that was essentially stopped by local politicians. And it feels like there aren't—the things that are coming up aren't as exciting as they used to be.
One that I've been following in the Bitcoin space, in the blockchain space, is BlockFi. And because—so there's so many Bitcoin enthusiasts in New York City, which is probably not surprising, because you have all the tech people there, you have all the finance people there. Right?
Aaron: Seems like a match made in heaven.
Max: Right. But a lot of companies can't operate in New York because the regulatory environment is like the worst.
Aaron: Is this specific to Bitcoin?
Max: Specific to Bitcoin, it’s like the worst in the nation. So Jersey City is where Blockfi is. And so that might be a hot spot. Jersey City is—for those of you who don't live in New York, it’s kind of like the sixth borough in New York. You could take—there's another subway called The Path—that you could take from Manhattan to Jersey City. So it's very easy to get back and forth. And I've done it. It's probably easier... It's much easier for me to get to Jersey City than it is to get to, say, Staten Island.
Aaron: Yeah. Like we always say, there’s definitely parts of the city that are more isolated than Jersey City is.
Max: Absolutely, absolutely. So it's interesting to have a little bit of that—you have a little bit like give and take there. But yeah, I mean, there was a little bit of like token support for software and tech that I participated in, which was the tech talent pipeline where I took people from the state schools, and we did presentations on them to develop soft skills. Like, how do you get your resume ready, how to get jobs and things like that. And that was very fun to do. But you've got to have the companies here. You've got to have the jobs here. And you've got to have a lot of them.
Aaron: And the impression I've gotten is that San Francisco is seeing somewhat of an exodus too, in the tech space. But I wonder if it's—if there are more fundamental issues with New York that are that are going to make that a different experience in terms of rebound or not?
Max: Yeah, I mean, both of them have problems. They're not like—the tech industry and the conglomeration of companies around these cities is not going away. It's not like they're all going to leave.
Aaron: Right. Right.
Max: But...
Aaron: But it might become slightly less concentrated?
Max: Yeah, yeah. I think San Francisco has probably a worse leadership problem. And I think they have so many companies there that they have more to lose. So that could be a bigger problem with San Francisco.
Aaron: Does Foursquare still have San Francisco offices?
Max: No. Well…
Aaron: They moved up to the Pacific Northwest?
Max: They might. Yeah, there might be some token office in San Francisco. But I believe they've de-emphasize San Francisco quite a bit, which is why I haven't been back there since 2018. So yeah, in favor of Washington and Los Angeles. But that's also a function of the companies they acquired.
Aaron: Right.
Max: Yeah. So anyway, it's been quite a long ride in New York. And 14 years, it's interesting to see how the industry in New York has changed, how the city has changed. Certain things remain the same, like the layout remains the same, of course. Like the same buildings, but how just different the lifestyle can be.
And now that like, a lot of the institutions have gone out of business, it's like, well, what's going to be left in their stead? I think that once you're allowed to go out in New York again, it's not like all of the great places that we used to hang out are gone. Just half of them are gone. And so there's still so many. In terms of an individual who wants things to do in New York, I think that will come back relatively quickly.
Aaron: So presumably you have not been banished from the city of New York, you will be allowed to return you as a visitor in the future.
Max: Yeah, but it's very different.
Aaron: When you do—when COVID has receded enough, and you've reached the activation energy to go pay pay New York City visit, what is that one thing that you would’ve been hankering for? That you're going to absolutely do on your first visit back to New York?
Max: Oh, that's a good question.
Aaron: I mean, is it gonna be the Forest Pizza or something else?
Max: Yeah, I mean, it might be...
Aaron: Assuming they're still there.
Max: Yeah, no. Well, so far the Forest Pizza and Veselka are still there. It'll probably be Veselka that just—because that's open 24 hours. It's much more reliable.
Aaron: One of your old haunts?
Max: Yeah. Well, I've learned—so one of the places that I've been going to more recently like in the last four or five years is El Vez, The Mexican place, for their nachos. And the reason is—you ever have—I assume you've had nachos? You've ordered nachos?
Aaron: I have indeed. I am a red blooded American. I enjoy nachos.
Max: I assume so but I wasn't gonna…
Aaron: I think we may have, in fact, had nachos together the last time you were in Vermont.
Max: Right. So you ever have this problem, where they put a lot of stuff on the nachos, but it all ends up on like three chips, and the other chips are kind of bare, and then those three chips are too soggy?
Aaron: Proper distribution is key. I mean, it's like if you get a pint of ice cream, and all the chocolate chips are in the top inch. It's no good.
Max: Yeah. So El Vez was excellent at that. It was like properly distributed at just the right amount so that every bite was delicious.
Aaron: And this is fully off topic here. But the other point that I'm getting…
Max: Hold on. I have a point that I’m getting to here. Wait, tell me about your nachos first.
Aaron: The other dimension of my perfect Nacho quadrangle here is it's not just the distribution of the toppings. It's that it can't be so topping heavy that you—when you go to get that chip with—it's got lots of stuff on it. The chip is just all floppy because it's gotten so soggy from the meat in the south. You need to get the right mix of toppings and crispiness. And it's a fine art to get that. So if you found a place that does that, don't forget.
Max: Right, right. So I didn't forget. And I went back to El Vez and it was great. But now I have heard they're barely still open. I don't know if they're still open. But like now they've got their B team on there. And then like the nachos are just like, they're just back down to earth. They're back to normal. The same with like artichoke pizza, I noticed. You know that was one of the great New York slices.
Aaron: Right.
Max: And now it's like, yeah, there's something about it, where it's like they have their B team out there or something. It's like, I mean, I don't want to criticize too much during the pandemic, but I'm worried about a lot—the quality of a lot of these places have started to go down. And so…
Aaron: Will that bounce back as well? But the question remains to be answered.
Max: Yeah, I hope so. But I feel like the interesting thing about a lot of these restaurants is like tech companies, they rely on talent. There are some chefs, and some people who prepare the food, who know what they're doing, have a lot of institutional knowledge. And some of them are like, “Screw it, I'm moving to Miami, or wherever.” Wherever people are going, or Austin, or something like that.
Aaron: Yeah, it's a problem that we see in the aerospace and defense industry as well. That even if your company doesn't have a major program going, that's using your particular skill set, they don't want to let those people go because when you lose somebody who's got 20, 30 years of expertise in that field, and they disappear, you can't build that back up. As soon as the money gets turned back on. You got to…
Max: Yeah.
Aaron: ...you got to be able to keep them busy and occupied. So that that expertise is tuned.
Max: Yeah. So anyway, I don't know what the food is like in Salem. I assume that the food scene is a little bit less dynamic, but I looked up on some things on YouTube. It looks like there are some—there are some places to check out.
But there's also a lot of like New York, just hangout spots that were really great. Yeah, I don't know. So where will I—where would I go? I'd probably go to Veselka, might I take a bike ride round the island, around the west side? Maybe.
Aaron: A city bike?
Max: Yeah, the city bike...that's all.
Aaron: Yeah, I don't think Salem is gonna have city bikes. So you might have to get a bike.
Max: Yeah, but I can. I can even get one of those...
Aaron: A motorcar. You can even throw your bike in your car. And yes, drive your bike to a place to go biking.
Max: You know where I can like get one of those? Oh, no. I don't know if this is to—I don't know if I should use this word. I don't know. But it's like one of those motorized scooters like the people drive around and yeah.
Aaron: We shall see. We shall see.
Max: Okay. Yeah. No, I'm excited. It's, I mean, some people do have bikes in New York and some people do have all sorts of things in New York. It's just—it really is too difficult at times, and your space is at a premium. And honestly, everything costs too much. Like now just to get in and out with the car for—not moving with just a car, but a car will be involved. But just like to find parking for a week. It's absurd. It's obscene.
Aaron: Yeah, no. That will not be a problem in New Hampshire.
Max: Yeah, yeah. And it's just everything is just made to be so difficult. And even now, when everything is not as bad as it was. Like, the hotels in New York City right now are very cheap compared to what they otherwise would be. But yeah, it's just, I feel like quality of life—I always felt like there's a trade off to be sure, but quality of life might be a lot better in a place like Salem, where I'm going. And this is an experiment so...
Aaron: Well, I certainly have a bias towards the more suburban lifestyle. But it'll be…
Max: But you've lived in downtown Boston, right?
Aaron: Yeah, I guess, I lived over in Back Bay for a little while.
Max: Okay.
Aaron: And in Cambridge when I was on campus. Yeah. So I mean, that's pretty damn urban. I lived, basically, right under the Citgo sign for a few years.
Max: Did you like that?
Aaron: I did.
Max: But you prefer...
Aaron: I don't think I would want to have—the bang for your buck drove me further from the city center almost immediately after graduating.
Max: Gotcha. That doesn't really happen in New York City because it's so big that if you work in the—if you work anywhere...
Aaron: You're on a high plateau. Whereas in the Boston area, you can move out a little bit and see a dramatic change pretty quickly.
Max: What was it? Hey, remember The Onion article? I think it was The Onion article, where it was like, hundreds of thousands of people get up in the morning in Boston and play a pretend game of Big City.
Aaron: Yeah.
Max: Walk around with our suitcases and we're going to work just like in a big city.
Aaron: There's a little resentment because New York City thinks that the world revolves around it. But yes, Boston, as the Boston proper, is a city only for historical contextual reasons. I think it may technically be like fewer than 400,000 people in the city of Boston.
Max: Yeah. I'm—they'll never get me to support their sports teams. Let's—I don't know if we're gonna get into that because there might be some fights.
Aaron: Well, yeah. That’s a contentious issue in my household not because I care about sports, but because I married someone who is not a fan of the Patriots. So there's always that.
Max: The Patriots just south of Boston. They're Boston nonetheless. Whatever.
Aaron: They're a New England team, because New England’s really...
Max: New England team, sure. Okay. Even though they're very close to Boston, aren't they?
Aaron: New Hampshire, Vermont, Maine, and Rhode Island don't have their own teams. And granted Connecticut is close enough to New York that they can be New York fans, but the rest of New England needs something to cluster around.
Max: Yeah, I guess, come to think of it. I haven't cared about sports in, like, eight years. So maybe that's not gonna start now. All right. So yeah, I guess this episode was to just announce the move and chat about it.
Aaron: Yeah, a little view of what's to come.
Max: Yeah. And do you have any more questions for me before we log off?
Aaron: Well, other than the change of pace, what is the thing you're most looking forward to in the new apartment, the new town?
Max: Hmm. This is something that I was the most worried about, but I'm also the most looking forward to. Which is, like, meeting new people and getting involved in new scenes, new events, clubs, organizations. I mean, I don't know how much that's gonna happen at the beginning. But although it will happen a little. And so I'm a little bit apprehensive about it, but I'm also excited about it.
Aaron: Well, we will certainly be eager to hear reports back as you settle in and see how living in a free state influences your perspective on things local and national.
Max: Well, the thing about New York City when things were hot, was—I was involved in so many very different types of scenes if you could put it that way. There was my co-workers, there was—in software, there was industry events. But then, there was also, I had the Chabad. I had the sort of the Jewish stuff, I have a Jewish history lectures. I had the parties in Brooklyn. How many warehouse parties did I go to? Quite a few. And then earlier on, I had like the bar hopping. And we had the Soho forum, the debates, NYU lectures. There was just so much to do in New York. The museums and whatnot, the parks, even like, there were sports in the parks.
There was just so much to do, and so many different subgroups to be involved in, especially through meetups when meetups are big. That it's just like—well, but that's been over for a while. So yeah, I think I'll probably naturally try to recreate that. And it won't be as big, but it might be like a little bit less of a pain in the neck to get to everything. Driving...
Aaron: You will have a car and Dartmouth will only be an hour and a half away. And Boston is, what, about an hour from there. So it’ll be easy to reach.
Max: Yeah, I feel like if I hop to like two or three events in one day, it won't be as big of a pain as it was in New York, even though I did it happily.
Aaron: Well, we'll see how it all shakes out.
Max: All right, I hope you enjoyed that conversation. This is just—I just want to update that I did indeed make the move. We had that conversation before the move. And everything that I said was gonna happen, happened. So that's great.
Next week, I think—I'm not sure what to do next week. I think I'm going to go do solo next week and follow up on last week's episode with regard to all the changes with our financial system and with currency. There's a lot of follow up on that. And then in the following weeks, hopefully, we will get the benefits of my new workspace and all the new time I might have. Not that I have always had tons of time. But yeah, I finally have some time here. So maybe we'll get some new guests or something like that. All right. Remember, maximum.locals.com. Have a great week, everyone!
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